Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:14 pm Post subject: Austria's smoking rate among the world's highest: experts
Austria's smoking rate among the world's highest: experts
VIENNA, May 26 (Xinhua) -- Austrian experts sounded warnings Wednesday on the grim situation facing anti-smoking campaigns in the country, saying its smoking rate was among the world's highest.
About 2.5 million, or 60 percent, of those in the 20-50 age group were regular or occasional smokers in Austria, said Horst Olschewski, director of the Pulmonary Division at the Graz University Hospital.
"This is actually a world record," Olschewski told a press conference on a restaurant smoking ban ahead of the World No Tobacco Day on May 31.
About 24 percent of the boys around 15 years old smoke cigarrettes, as do 30 percent of the girls of the same age, both quite high, he said.
Otto Burghuber, former chairman of the Association of Pulmonologists Austria, said regular smokers account for 41 percent of those aged 15 to 20, with another 8 percent being occasional smokers.
Austria has had in place a ban on smoking in restaurants since early 2009, requiring all restaurants with a business floor area of more than 50 square meters to have non-smoking areas. Authorities were mulling over a plan to implement a full ban on smoking in restaurants.
Sylvia Hartl, vice president of the Austrian Association for Pneumology, called for a full ban on smoking in restaurants and prevention to be made an important part of national healthcare.
"Prevention (of smoking) should be given priority," she said.
She also called for the introduction of heavy duties on tobacco to make manufacturers pay for treatment of addiction.
The United Kingdom and the Netherlands have begun to implement free medical treatment to people who voluntarily giving up smoking.
The experts, however, acknowledged fighting smoking was not easy.
Only 19 percent of the respondents in a recent survey in Austria supported a full ban on smoking in restaurants.
Anyone think we can discuss this in a civilized manner without anyone being told to mosey on along if they don’t’ like the way things are here?
Please looking for personal opinions and thoughts, so if you can address the subject without beating up the poster it would be a good thing and if we can keep it about smoking it would also be a plus point
Some questions …
Why do you think the smoking rate is so high here?
Why do you think Non Smokers have so much tolerance for smokers here?
Why do you think it is so hard to enforce the existing rules regarding smoking here?
Heard this one on a local news show… What do you think of private citizens enforcing the law by turning people in for smoking in non-designated areas?
That statistic gives you all the answers....which of course means that 81% of people are against a smoking ban
I would think that in those numbers you might have some undecided?
Actually I think they are going for overkill with the full ban (since people are no longer seeing it as a smoking issue, but a personal choice issue), which puts the whole subject on hold.
I would rather they enforce some of the current laws. But Making Hospitals smoke- free ( no funky stinky restaurants with open doors allowed) should really be on the agenda. I mean come on is it really too much to ask people to go outside to light up around a building full of new babies and sick people?
The Austrian love for cigarettes dates from the 19th century, when artists and writers gathered in locales such as Vienna's Café Griensteidl to read the paper, write, socialize and smoke, says Kurt-Jürgen Heering, editor of the anthology "The Vienna Coffeehouse."
.In 2005, Austria passed a law calling for voluntary bans on smoking in hospitals, train stations and other public places. In 2007, when the Austrian government came under pressure from the European U nion to toughen its smoking legislation, then-Health Minister Andrea Kdolsky took up the issue of smoking in public places.
Many attribute the laxity of the new antismoking law to Ms. Kdolsky, a proponent of free choice when it comes to cigarettes. The 46-year-old former anesthesiologist and hospital director had been a smoker since the age of 16 until she recently ditched the habit.
"Smokers are old enough to decide on their own," she said in an interview last year.
Opinion polls showed that most Austrians were against a full-blown smoking ban, says Ms. Kdolsky. She dismisses claims about the dangers of secondhand smoke. "No international study tells you that sitting in a restaurant for two hours as a passive smoker brings you harm," she says.
The subject of public smoking in Austria has come up on here many times, often in heated debate and I've expressed my opinions here many a time.
Personally I wish for an all-out ban-- not only because I personally hate secondhand smoke but because I feel like with these sorts of things the current laws/policies aren't really enforced and often the compromises are an absolute joke. For example, people aren't supposed to smoke on OeBB train platforms, yet it happens all the time-- and I've never seen the fine for smoking there enforced. (And before someone says the expats should go home if they don't like it it is the OeBB-- the AUSTRIAN railroad-- that came up with that policy, not me the foreigner.)
Another example-- Awhile back I went to a restaurant in my neighborhood and sat in their non-smoking section (a separate room from the rest of the place) with my Austrian family. When I sit in the non-smoking section I expect a smoke-free environment. Another party came in, sat down, and started lighting up. We asked them (in German-- and it was my Austrian husband asking so it was one Austrian to another-- again not the evil foreigner) to please stop or move to one of the smoking rooms. Instead of enforcing the non-smoking policy of the non-smoking room, the waiter told them they could continue wth their smoking in that room (the designated non-smoking section, mind you!)
Some places one can avoid-- for example, I choose not to patronize Cafe Hawelka because of the smoke there. (They are known for their smoky environment.) However, my local post office-- which is supposed to be smoke-free-- is filled with secondhand smoke because the employees are all smoking out in the open there. I can't choose whether or not to go to that post office-- not when I want my mail/packages (even when I was home and they simply didn't ring my bell to deliver it to me-- but that's off-topic!!) Cigarette smoke is in lots of other enviroments that would be non-smoking in other cities and countries and that one can't necessarily avoid.
As for the Kdolsky quote about smokers being able old enough to decide on their own-- well, no, not all of them are. There are lots of underage smokers here and cigarettes are easy to access. As for the harm from 2 hours of secondhand smoke, well, that's just not true. I don't remember where the info came from but I did some research into the subject for an academic paper back in the 1990s. The state of Vermont in the U.S. was one of the first places to have an all-out ban on smoking in public places. One of the reasons was that non-smokers working in environments with the smoke were contracting smoking-related cancers at 7 times the rate of the general population (specifically restaurant/bar employees.)
Smoking bans seem to work well in many other countries and European capitals.
Also I would use the analogy that the smoking sections here are like having peeing sections in a swimming pool-- you can't really separate them. Some of my arguments I've used on other threads. For example, the SCS is in theory supposed to be smoke-free-- but the restaurants with seating in the hallways and/or that is open allow their patrons to smoke-- so all of the smoke is still in the hallways of the shopping center. You also often have to walk through large smoking sections to get to the non-smoking sections.
Another example-- Awhile back I went to a restaurant in my neighborhood and sat in their non-smoking section (a separate room from the rest of the place) with my Austrian family. When I sit in the non-smoking section I expect a smoke-free environment. Another party came in, sat down, and started lighting up. We asked them (in German-- and it was my Austrian husband asking so it was one Austrian to another-- again not the evil foreigner) to please stop or move to one of the smoking rooms. Instead of enforcing the non-smoking policy of the non-smoking room, the waiter told them they could continue wth their smoking in that room (the designated non-smoking section, mind you!)
Another example-- Awhile back I went to a restaurant in my neighborhood and sat in their non-smoking section (a separate room from the rest of the place) with my Austrian family. When I sit in the non-smoking section I expect a smoke-free environment. Another party came in, sat down, and started lighting up. We asked them (in German-- and it was my Austrian husband asking so it was one Austrian to another-- again not the evil foreigner) to please stop or move to one of the smoking rooms. Instead of enforcing the non-smoking policy of the non-smoking room, the waiter told them they could continue wth their smoking in that room (the designated non-smoking section, mind you!)
Did you ask for the manager? Get up and walk out?
What kind of enforcement does the law provide? Can you call in a cop off the street? A hotline for scofflaws? The "smoking police"? Not trying to be a DH, just wondering.
What kind of enforcement does the law provide? Can you call in a cop off the street? A hotline for scofflaws? The "smoking police"? Not trying to be a DH, just wondering.
This is actually something they brought up on a local TV show about the smoking ban. I believe you can... not sure who you call what they will do when they show up.
But that sounds really 3rd Reich (neighbor turning in neighbor, kids turning in parents) so I would assume most people would find it pretty abhorrent.
Can you imagine this power in the hands of your ticked of non smoking teenager? (kidding!!! We know most of them in Austria smoke along with mom and dad! In fact reports have it 11 is the going starting age here.)
That brings up another question for smokers...Do you have a problem if your child smokes?
Another example-- Awhile back I went to a restaurant in my neighborhood and sat in their non-smoking section (a separate room from the rest of the place) with my Austrian family. When I sit in the non-smoking section I expect a smoke-free environment. Another party came in, sat down, and started lighting up. We asked them (in German-- and it was my Austrian husband asking so it was one Austrian to another-- again not the evil foreigner) to please stop or move to one of the smoking rooms. Instead of enforcing the non-smoking policy of the non-smoking room, the waiter told them they could continue wth their smoking in that room (the designated non-smoking section, mind you!)
Did you ask for the manager? Get up and walk out?
We had just finished the meal and were in the process of waiting for the bill by this point. We chose not to stay for dessert and coffee-- went somewhere else-- and have not eaten at the restaurant since. And yes, my husband did speak to the manager and the response was "Na und?!"
That brings up another question for smokers...Do you have a problem if your child smokes?
F8ck yeah I do!! Just because a parent screws up and gets hooked is no reason to look away when a child/teen smokes. I would have a MAJOR problem with my children smoking as well as anybody else's children. Sometimes youngsters try to bum off of me. I tell'em to call one of their parents and, with parents' permission, I'll give'm a smoke. So far, it's been 100% kids walking away grumbling about a-hole adults.
To go back to the original questions at the start of this:
Why do you think the smoking rate is so high here?
I guess going by living here for so long, that its part of their culture in a way, and has been for centuries. There also really isn’t a lot of controversial advertising here regarding smoking. Its also a very small country, so the statistics that are out there, wouldn’t even be noticed if one were to compare it to a larger country that still allows smoking in public areas.
Why do you think non-smokers have so much tolerance for smokers here?
I think that’s because they are simply being tolerant and it doesn’t appear to bother them that much. I really don’t know, but that’s what I think may be the case. Tolerance means broadmindedness so maybe the majority are broadminded?
Why do you think it is so hard to enforce the existing rules regarding smoking here?
Are they? The places I have been to since last Thursday have all done as was asked of them. If they are bigger than 50m2 then they have a total separation with a door. If they are smaller then they have made their choice as to whether it’s a smoking establishment or not. As far as I can see its working out ok. Speaking only of the places I have been to of course.
What do you think of private citizens enforcing the law by turning people in for smoking in non-designated areas?
The Government did this deliberately. They simply don’t want to get their hands dirty by taking any sides on this subject. And they have clearly said that they wanted to (this is not a quote) make both sides content with the new law, and as WD said, they have listened to the people and also proven this by implementing this new law, I commend them as well for doing that.
And they didn’t want to take away individuals rights. I think personally they have achieved this; that is if everyone plays fair. If you are in a non-smoking area and want to smoke, then one has to go to the smoking area…dead easy. So I am hoping that it wont be necessary for citizens to turn in people for smoking in non-designated areas. There may be a few exceptions, but there is an exception to every rule in life.
One other thing we cant ignore is that it is a fact, whether one likes it or not, that banning smoking completely in restaurants/bars/clubs/cafes is detrimental to that countries economy. Looking only at the number of people here in Austria that do smoke, makes it clear that if they were to ban smoking entirely, then the restaurants/bars etc would suffer dramatically, a lot of them just wouldn’t be able to survive and would have to shut down.
It cannot be assumed that people would “just stop smoking"; because they may not, they may just decide to stay home more often. It could be a big risk to take, banning it altogether. This has an effect on the entire countries economy, which then has an effect on the politicians. They don’t want that. That’s why they came up with this solution to hopefully make everyone content in a world that is never perfect and can never please everyone 100%.
It is a fact that many places in the UK have had to shut down, because a lot of people just don’t go out anymore because they don’t want to stand outside and smoke in the freezing cold and feel like a freak of nature, which they arent.
Had they made a separation between smoking and non-smoking areas my belief is that none of that would have happened. Who knows? And that is the opinion of a lot of people in the UK, that's just one example of a country that banned smoking altogether in public places. The economy in the UK is not the best, and the same goes for other European countries that banned smoking altogether. The many places that had to shut down were a part of that economy before, when it wasn’t quite as bad as it is now. They are now on the list of unemployed people I suspect. Again, not good for the economy. And lets face it, at the end of the day, we are all affected by the economy in some way or another. And many things affect the economy....not only banning smoking.
Uh oh! Bringing economics into the conversation is opening up a whole new can of worms. Looking forward to some of the anti-smokers' responses!!
Come on we are talking about an addiction, an illness that causes additional illnesses. How can you really talk about economic loss without factoring in the health care cost increases due to cigarette smoking? Also the shut down of businesses may also be attributed to the economic times we are in a world-wide recession not just a smoking ban.
It cannot be assumed that people would “just stop smoking"; because they may not, they may just decide to stay home more often. It could be a big risk to take, banning it altogether. This has an effect on the entire countries economy, which then has an effect on the politicians. They don’t want that. That’s why they came up with this solution to hopefully make everyone content in a world that is never perfect and can never please everyone 100%.
In the US and Canada smoking has decreased 40% or more according to the World Health Association and the ban does seem to be a major influence. But I also think it is the mind set.
In Austria, i can only speak about this country as i dont know how it works anywhere else, the statistics for unemployed people are reduced when an unemployed person is put on a course. They are still unemployed in reality, but for the statistics they arent. Makes it all look super good. Silvia....dont believe everything you read!
In Austria, i can only speak about this country as i dont know how it works anywhere else, the statistics for unemployed people are reduced when an unemployed person is put on a course. They are still unemployed in reality, but for the statistics they arent. Makes it all look super good. Silvia....dont believe everything you read!
that's exactly right and that's how it works in Austria.
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Austria's smoking rate among the world's highest: expert
Silvia wrote:
Why do you think the smoking rate is so high here?
Why do you think Non Smokers have so much tolerance for smokers here?
Why do you think it is so hard to enforce the existing rules regarding smoking here?
Maybe the high rate + tolerance has to do with extended Austrian families.
If you grew up with smokers among one or both of your parents, aunts & uncles, your opa & oma, cousins, close family friends & neighbors -- you've been around it most of your life. And to exclude one or more of these smokers from any outside activities (restaurants, cafes, and family get-togethers) would seem... I don't know, unthinkable?
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